Strange and deceitful new anti-gun tactic

Apparently the gun haters have decided that since they can’t convince business owners to post anti-gun signs, maybe they should post the signs themselves.

After Oct 1st I started to look for posted signs at my favorite establishments. I frequently go to a local chicken wing place in Greensboro and last week I noticed a simple sicker that pictured a pistol with red circle and line through it. I took it as no firearms allowed.

I was grabbing a to go order so I had already called it in. I was sad as this was going to be my last order as I wasn’t going to support them anymore. I REALLY like their wings. The manager is the one who brought me my order and gave me the customary “come again soon.” Which I replayed “not likely as long as you have that” pointing at the sicker.

She was shocked and asked the hostess if she knew who put that there. She asked me to wait and went to the back. She came back with the chef who is the owner and he said he had no idea how that got there. He removed it and wished me a good day.

The story has a happy ending, but the follow up is even better.

Yesterday, I went back and the manager said she looked at the surveillance video and said late one night a customer put the sticker there just before closing on their way out. They confronted them as they are also a frequent customer. She stated that she does that all over town where ever she goes. The manger asked them not to come back anymore.

There’s a lesson here. If you see a gun ban sign, make sure to question it. It might be some anti-gun jerk posting the sign.

If you are the victim of some gun hater posting a sign like this, please let me know. I can put you in touch with the Grass Roots North Carolina leadership and we can publicly humiliate the person posting the sign. It might not be worth the effort to sue them for Tortious Interference with Business Relationships

Tortious interference with business relationships occurs where the tortfeasor acts to prevent the plaintiff from successfully establishing or maintaining business relationships. This tort may occur when a first party’s conduct intentionally causes a second party not to enter into a business relationship with a third party that otherwise would probably have occurred. Such conduct is termed tortious interference with prospective business relations, expectations, or advantage or with prospective economic advantage.

but we could get them on the news acting like jerks.

I can see how random people might start posting the “This home is proudly gun free” signs on the lawns of people who do crap like that.

UPDATE: Given that lots of people are coming in via Instapundit (Thanks for the link, Glenn!) it’s possible that many of you don’t know North Carolina law. In NC, any No Guns sign has the force of law. There is not standard mandated sign, like Texas’s 30.06 sign. Passing a “No Guns” sign while carrying a gun on a CHP is a Class 1 Misdemeanor.

83 Responses to Strange and deceitful new anti-gun tactic

  1. I wonder if that’s what happened at McKay’s in K-town?

  2. This is why I carry no guns = no money cards. I give them to the managers of places with those signs and give them the opportunity to explain their reasons. So far, here in Iowa, those signs haven’t been a problem. Most places don’t post them.

  3. This is why the Texas 30-06 signs are nice. Kinda hard to sneak a 12×12 sign into a place without the manager noticing

  4. I work in GSO during the week. Will you identify the Wing Shop? I like wings alot, and I would like to go buy from them in appreciation.

  5. David: I am not the person who posted this on NC Gun Owners forum. You could join NCGO and ask the Original Poster.

  6. I am not sure about North Carolina, but in South Carolina, such a sticker would most likely be meaningless. State law specifies a minimum size (for example, I think the strokes of the circle must be 1″ wide, and the circle must be at least 7″ diameter, and so on.) Signs that don’t meet the law have no legal force.

    When I took a concealed carry course, the instructor made sure to point that out–and also, several times during the class, that everything he teaches in a concealed carry course has to be approved by SLED, the state police. He said that you’ll see “no weapons” signs on every bank, but none of them count, and that the banks do that on purpose. Everyone who carries knows the signs are irrelevant, but hoplophobes think they’re “safe”.

  7. In Massachusetts, pretty much every public place is presumed to be a shooting gallery- i.e. No law-abiding civilians with guns. But in my county, the sheriff is a Republican and “May issue” is “shall issue.” So if you can afford the hundreds of dollars and weeks of time to be “allowed” to own guns, you will get your permit.

    That said, I still hold my breath when the kids are in school.

  8. Of course these vandals are also putting everyone who works or shops there in mortal danger, since the typical attacker will seek out a “gun free” zone.

    I would suggest that if you do catch a person doing this you prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Then sue them for civil damages for endangering your and your customer’s lives. Maybe a class action suit representing all your employees and customers as well.

  9. Haven’t been to @earthfare in months. I’ll have to confirm.

  10. I’ve added an update. In NC, any “No Guns” sign, so long as the notice is “posted conspicuously.” It is a Class 1 Misdemeanor to ignore any No Guns sign.

  11. Good thing about Florida, such signs don’t have the force of law :) All they can do is ask you to leave and if you don’t then its trespass, plain and simple.

  12. This is why it is always important to talk to business owners about their apparent policies. We swim in a sea of information, er, propaganda, where not only is it smart to question the validity of the information, but also the purported source of the information. In this case, the biz owner was not the source of the sticker and only by talking to them directly was this propaganda revealed to be the smoke and mirrors it was. Stay frosty, indeed!

  13. Even if the sign has force of law, it must be posted on EVERY entrance or they will not be able to prove intent.

    Yes, prosecute them for vandalism as far as you can, and sue for damages.

  14. One of the problems with all of these petty laws is that the public cannot keep up with each requirement. Sign size, lettering, circle-slash, where it must be posted: most of us will never keep up with all of the petty details. So, when people see any sign at all, it registers “No guns” and signals the property owner’s philosophy about armed citizens. If I am traveling to North Carolina, and see a circle-slash sign on a store door, I am not going to consult the Droid to learn the hidden details of the state’s posted-property laws.
    Isn’t it ironic that the “posted property” statutes are meant to respect the private property owner’s right to control his property, and the commie minions flout the law by trespassing and vandalizing?

  15. You got linked by Insty? I was just on my normal blogroll reading list.

  16. The last paragraph is NOT entirely true for NC per NCGS 14-415.11(c)(8):

    “Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:”

    “On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.”

    http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-415.11.html

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  18. It also happen in Kernersville nc. I love their wings but will go else where now with the No Gun sign. Sad but true….

  19. Randy VE: It is entirely true. There are no standards for “No Guns” signs. Anything that conveys that no guns are allowed, either words or drawings, is a legal sign. Failing to heed that sign, if you have a CHP, is a Class 1 Misdemeanor.

    Prior to Oct 1 2013, it was a Class 2 Misdemeanor, but as part of H937 the penalty was increased to a Class 1 Misdemeanor.

    Read
    http://www.ncgunblog.com/2013/07/24/h937-amend-various-firearms-laws-waiting-for-governors-signature/

    Section 14, item (6)

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  24. Marshall Eubanks

    Sean D. Sorrentino,

    No, you’re wrong; that last sentence isn’t strictly correct.

    Go on and read the last clause of NCGS 14-415.11(c) (8).

    Read it as carefully as you should have the first time.

    Hint: it’s not WHAT the sign looks like, it’s WHO posted the sign that matters.

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  27. Marshall: Don’t be nitpicky. Yes, in the unlikely case that some nitwit posts a sign on someone else’s business, then it is not valid. But no CHP holder would be dumb enough to assume that the sign on the door would have been posted by someone other than the person in legal control of the premises.

    That’s the whole point. No decent human being would do what this person did. It’s completely out of the realm of civilized behavior. We as gun owners and CHP holders can never assume that a sign is anything other than what it appears to be.

  28. Wisconsin has a similar law (134.01), but requires that at least 2 people conspire. Anywhere, if you see a post advocating this crap get a screenshot. If you see a sign, talk to the manager or owner. Let them know why they’re not getting your business. They may not want the sign, or they may reconsider when they know people are not spending money there.

  29. Pingback: New, desperate anti-gun cultist tactic: “posting” businesses without store owner knowledge | Local Shooting Ranges

  30. Is there somewhere I can order the “no guns, no business” cards?

  31. “Shall not be infringed” needs no interpretation! While it is a proprietor’s right to prohibit arms in their establishment, it is also their responsibility to provide the service of checking t heir weapons upon entering and retrieving them upon exiting. That’s how they handled it in the early days and there is no reason why it won’t work today. And today we have inexpensive metal detectors if that will make the progressive left feel safer. I prefer .40 Cal. S&W JHP!

  32. IGotBupkis, "'Faeces Evenio', Mr. Holder?"

    }}} “This home is proudly gun free” signs on the lawns of people who do crap like that.

    Screw that. Paint it in neon yellow or orange on their curb one night with a pre-made stencil…

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  35. So glad here in Washington State signs like this carry no weight of law unless the establishment is listed in RCW 9.41.300

  36. Much to do about nothing. Since I carry concealed I only refrain from carrying into federal buildings, courthouses, and bars, as are outlined in the Florida Statutes. As far as carrying concealed in a business with a “no guns” policy whether theirs or planted by some third party anti gun group, I’m not concerned since if a “no guns” business did, some how find out I was carrying, all he can do is ask me to leave.

  37. Also the law in question states “conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises”.A simple sticker with a Gun on it and a red line across it does not constitute a conspicuous notice, it can mean a variety of things, from the owner of the establishment being armed, to notice that the retailer does not sell guns, to a political statement that the owners are anti gun. Only a notice or statement saying to the effect “no weapons are permitted on this property” would constitute a legal notice.

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  39. did you know texas also has what they call a purple sign law???? this is for trespassing on private property. if someone trespasses on your property and you have the correct purple sign, you have every right to shoot the trespasser! it is just a piece of plywood or other suitable substitute that has to have the correct dimensions and is just painted purple, sounds weird but it is true!

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  41. Thomas Stratford: If you make that argument in North Carolina, you’ll get a free ride down to the County Jail. After conviction, you’ll lose your CHP, and face up to 6 months in jail and a $2,000 fine.

    ANY sign that conveys any form of “no guns” or “no weapons” or even “No Concealed Handguns” whether in words or in pictures that is posted on an entrance where any normal person could have seen it is a valid sign.

    The arresting officer will determine “conspicuous.” We have had police officers get called on someone who have looked at the door and said,

    “that’s not ‘conspicuous.’ The part banning guns is small, down in a corner, and buried under a lot of other words.”

    But if you think the cop is going to look at a circle-slash gun sticker and say “that’s not conspicuous enough,” you’re the problem, not the property owner.

  42. Use the small claims court for a quick judgement of, say, $200 for ‘defacement of private property. If enough businesses sue this cowardly poster, she’ll be out of funds as well as friends!

  43. In MO, it would be rare to see a no-guns sign and it doesn’t have the ‘force of law’ behind it. All they can do is ask you to leave. If I’m carrying concealed, I simply ignore the stupid sign.

  44. “but we could get them on the news acting like jerks.”

    I miss living in the south. I doubt that would fly here in PA, where all the news programs come out of philthydelphia and thepittsburgh.

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  48. I have deleted a comment from a certain anti-rights troll called MikeB. He was and remains banned for a long history of disgusting behavior. For more info on this self-admitted criminal, see

    http://www.ncgunblog.com/2010/10/10/why-is-mikeb-banned/

    MikeB can promote his own blog himself. He doesn’t get to leave inflammatory comments here in hopes that regular folks will follow him back to his blog to feed his narcissism.

  49. Mr. Bupkis – for a more ‘lasting impression’, instead of a removable sign – use Glyphosate/Roundup and write your message in their lawn…

  50. If the sign has force of law, the person falsely posting it would then be guilty of acting under color of law without authority. I would think there is some kind of actionable statute that would get state action against that person based on “impersonating a public official” by posting the sign.

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  52. In Tennessee there is NO law concerning signs posted at a business. They can just ask you to leave.

  53. I am just astounded at how these freakin’ idiots STILL think that gun free zones make citizens safer. They make no sense. A business owner who declares his establishment a gun free zone basically informs any potential thug that they are safe to rob here. Concealed carry stops mass shootings. We’re all looking for answers, right? How do we stop the mass shootings? No more Aurora CO’s, if these maniacs know there’s a chance a good guy is packing heat, they’d be a lot less likely to charge in raising hell with a gun. Why don’t we try something new? Something not tried before? Instead of flocking to toss out stricter legislation, let’s end the gun free zone. Let’s TRY it instead of kneejerk “DO SOMETHING” legislation.

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  56. Face it folks, it doesn’t have anything to do with stopping crime, it’s about disarming us so they can go ahead with their socialist agenda. Everyone knows, if they really think about it, you can’t dictate behavior by taking away tools. They can’t stop me from building a house by taking away my pneumatic nailers. Remember that Colorado school shooting? Ya, that one. those kids had propane tanks stashed all over that school. The only thing that kept them from blowing that whole place up and killing countless others was the faulty switches. If they would have gotten firearms they more than likely have perfected the firing devices. Again, you can’t dictate behavior by taking tools away.

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  58. “If the sign has force of law, the person falsely posting it would then be guilty of acting under color of law without authority. I would think there is some kind of actionable statute that would get state action against that person based on “impersonating a public official” by posting the sign.”

    That is an EXCELLENT idea!

  59. Rights friendly establishments will be needed to help ferret out and defeat these people. There is absolutely no one any more ignorant or devious people than anti gunners. We can ask questions of the establishment.

    We can vote with our feet, which is the only thing we can do. I have a list, that gets updated, for my state listing “Rights Hostile” establishments. I make sure they never EVER get a dime of mine.

    I guess we can take solace that the anti gunners patronize places that have the “Unarmed Victim Zone” signs. I might even shed a tear if they get whacked by a whack job.

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  64. “No Guns = No $” cards free here – pdf download:
    http://www.learntocarry.com/nogunsnomoney/

  65. These cards have a minor cost, but look great!
    (No Guns = No $)

  66. Sorry – forgot the link!
    http://nogunsnomoneycards.com/

  67. Sean D. Sorrentino :

    it should be noted that IANAL…

    That said, the punishment for someone open carrying is almost non-existent vs someone concealed carrying in the presence of a sign posted on the entrance of a business:

    § 14-159.13. Second degree trespass.
    (a) Offense. – A person commits the offense of second degree trespass if, without authorization, he enters or remains on premises of another:
    (1) After he has been notified not to enter or remain there by the owner, by a person in charge of the premises, by a lawful occupant, or by another authorized person; or
    (2) That are posted, in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, with notice not to enter the premises.
    (b) Classification. – Second degree trespass is a Class 3 misdemeanor. (1987, c. 700, s. 1; 1993, c. 539, s. 102; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)

    You would have to be asked to leave and refuse to leave to be charged. This would be the same if they had a “no cellphones” sign posted and you ignored it…would you be changed for ignoring the sign? likely not as it is hard to trespass objects.

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  71. Should be considered vandalism. How about scraping off signs that are on windows? If it’s good for the goose….

  72. It is considered vandalism, but in this case the store owner decided not to make a criminal case out of it. I can understand that, though if it was me I would have chosen differently.

    As for scraping anti-gun signs, I’ve often wondered how they anti-gunners would feel about that. We wouldn’t do that, as we respect people’s private property, but it would be exactly the same thing, wouldn’t it?

  73. Has NC passed the bill to allow conceal carry into an establishment that serves alcohol?

  74. Cathy: Yes, House Bill 937 passed and went into effect on October 1. For full details, see my H937 page.
    http://www.ncgunblog.com/2013/07/24/h937-amend-various-firearms-laws-waiting-for-governors-signature/

  75. That is low. I would have at least considered pressing charges for vandalism or something similar. Don’t mess with my property, especially like that. Perhaps a “no soliciting” sign would turn that fool’s game off.

    Such people disgust me – they have no respect for anyone, even themselves. Self-absorbed, timid, shivering little islands of piteous flesh.

  76. You know, I think we need to talk to GRNC. I believe that a reasonable legislative target this session (among others, I’m sure) would be a revision to the law that sets forth some specific requirements for “no guns” signage, a la the Texas statute.

  77. You may not realize it, but I am part of the core group of GRNC volunteers. GRNC is fully aware of this situation and is monitoring Moms Demand and their ninja signage problem.

  78. Hopefully some of those businesses will sue the crap out of those anti-gun nuts. Although it may be problematic for gun carriers to sue, the business owner is completely within their rights to sue.

  79. Sign or no sign ive carried for over thirty yrs Thankfully i have never had a reason to draw my weapon nor do i expect to just knowing i have the option makes me feel much safer with all going on in the world now days
    ive seen people having fights purses stolen and hit n runs not once have i felt my life or life of others were in peril a good nose busting is in order at times but not a reason to pull any fire arm i guess because i carry i feel very responsible for any actions i might have to take ,i do not take the right to carry lightly it requires strong morals and great respect for others to carry a fire arm any one that thinks otherwise should not carry such weapons i also do not believe its up to the police or any one else to tell me where i can n cannot carry my weapon i dont see terrorists or murderers asking for permission to carry i remember when every one in the small town im from carried guns in plain sight there was no crime n no one ever questioned it i am holding on to the way i was brought up as a peaceful man one who fears god n helps his neighbors when able.I will never bow to anyone that says i am in the wrong for my beliefs its the way i grew up and the way i will remain

  80. this is a gun free zone,
    there’s no cash or anything worth stealin’ -
    someone else beat you to it!

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  82. Chuck (Smithfix) Smith

    Scott Anderson said, “That said, I still hold my breath when the kids are in school.”
    Now that is a parent who loves his kids! If they die he will just snivel. Sending your kids to public school is child neglect.